coverage chatting social media, you know how it works. jenna: what is nice is you actually talk back. you don't have to talk to the television and no one responds. >> reporter: join us. jenna: thank you for that. gregg: thanks for joining us. "america live" begins right now. >> reporter: we start a with a fox news alert for you. new numbers from the treasury department. the spending crisis in washington is getting worse and it's hitting every american work wer a whooping new bill. welcome to "america live" i'm alisyn camerota in for megyn kelly who is headed to colorado for wednesday night's debate. that is where domestic issues like our debt will be the main focus. this comes as new data shows just how deep of a hole we are in. the u.s. treasury announcing that washington spent nearly $1.2 trillion more than it took in last year. that is a debt increase of close to $11,000 per household in just

12 months. overall, our nation is more than $16 trillion in the red. that is a massive bubble that threatens our entire economy. how do the candidates handle this tomorrow night? let's ask chris stirewalt our fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on foxnews.com live, and stewart varney is the host of varney & company on the fox business network. thank you so much for being here. chris i want to start with you. what can either candidate say to grab, you know, america by the lapel and make them understand what each one of them wants to do to change our financial dire straits? >> it's a heck after lot easier for mitt romney on this one since he is the outsider and hasn't been in office and wasn't part of make thag debt and president obama has over seen in fact the unprecedented increase in size of the federal debt, and as a matter of fact in talking to senior people from romney land that is exactly what mitt romney means to do when he gets

on that debate stage in denver, is go off the president not just on what romney says are ineffectual policies like the president's healthcare law and stimulus packages, but the cost of those policies as compared to romney's own perscriptions that call for smaller less expensive government. for the president what he's going to try to do is say look, maybe things aren't so great but it is partly the fault of george w. bush and the republicans who were in office prior to the democrats taking control in 2009, so we need time to fix it, and by the way, the president will also say that he wants to increase taxes on people like mitt romney to help pay down some of that debt. >> reporter: we just put of that graphic there showing the $16 trillion of debt and there are so many digits it almost doesn't fit on the tv screen across the screen there, as you can see. but haven't americans in some way become number to astronomical numbers? how serious is this in. >> they have become number. is it the new normal this

massive spilling of red ink but it raises three problems which i don't think the nation has got even to grips with yet. number one our economy is smaller than our debt. we look like europe, we know what happened there. number two we are spending $9 billion every week just paying interest on this debt, about a quarter of it goes overseas. and number 3, we are paying for this debt by printing money. so here is the question, allison, what happens when we stop printing as we inevitably will at some point, what happens when people stop lending us the money because we've borrowed so much. what happens when the markets say you can't afford this. no mas, no more lending? at that point the bubble bursts and interest rates go straight up, and the economy goes straight down, a little bit like europe. that is the nature of the problem and we haven't got even to grips witness. >> reporter: in 2009 president obama pledged to cut the budget deficit in half by the end of his first term. obviously with the budget deficit still at 1.2 trillion

that hasn't happened. how does he get past that at the debates? >> as he said, central to his entirely election argument is things were much worse than we thought they were. the country was in a much-worse situation and the americans who lived through the panic of 2008 tend to agree with him, they tend to easily recall what it was like when they opened their 401k statements before this election in 2008 and said, gee, this is not working. the president does have that going in his favor. the thing that makes him more vulnerable is this. this is where romney can really get him. the president said if he got the more than trillion dollars in stimulus packages that he wanted that he could get unemployment down under 8%, and that is not what happened. so what romney will argue is, that the president has failed and that the failures have been simply too expensive. and you know the new sewing began in romney land and that is this. we can't afford four more years. you're going to hear that in very clear relief on wednesday.

>> reporter: stewart is that enough to say the president's policies have failed or does romney need to layout in terms that americans can understand what he would do to bring this debt and deficit down? >> i think you've hit the nail on the head, he must spell out what he's going to do about this huge problem. in my opinion, what he must do is spell out how he will grow america's economy. we must grow at at least a 4% rate. if we can do that we raise the level of employment, we raise more money in taxes, we cut the deficit and if we have a long-term plan to deal with our spending, and i stress long term, that is an answer to our problems. essentially mr. romney has to tell the world how will he grow america's economy compared to the miserable rate of growth that we've had for the last three and a half years. >> reporter: it's going to be an interesting debate tomorrow night. thank you so much. the president and governor romney may be taking time off the campaign trail today for debate practice but the vice presidental candidates are not. vice president joe biden spoke

to voters in charlotte, north carolina a short time ago about the concerns he has over his opponent's plan for medicare, while at wong man's paul ryan's event in iowa today things took an emotional term when a veteran asked him about his social security benefits and why the government taxes the only source of income for a man who dedicated his life to defending his country. >> i served in the air force in 65 straight out of high school, and i learned in the military -- [applause] >> -- the skills that i had to take me through life. i served in grenada, and i served in iran, and i live off of social security. i live off a thousand dollars a month, and i cannot understand why this country that i gave my

life for feels that they should tax me twice for social security. they already taxed me for that and they take a third of it back when they give me that check. >> you know i'm glad you brought that up, sir. [applause] >> now, there is a tax on social security benefits he's talking about. i voted consistently to repeal that tax because you know what you already paid for this. it's your benefit, you already paid tax on this money once before, number two, it's funny how joe biden and others tack about this issue, joe biden voted for this tax. president obama voted a few times to keep this tax. we think it's a wrong tax because you already paid tax on this. >> reporter: again, you can expect to her more on the debt, social security and medicare during tomorrow night's debate. be sure to tune in tomorrow night 8:55 eastern as megyn,

bret baier and the entire fox news political team brings you complete coverage and analysis of the very first debate between president obama and governor mitt romney. fox news alert for you right now. this a news conference underway concerning breaking news in the presidential race. a pennsylvania judge decide tog puing to put a voter i.d. law on hold. this is a ruling that has upset conservatives already. some are calling it a victory for voter shaun. eric shawn is live with here. >> reporter: they are calling this decision a big win, the aclu. at pennsylvania when you show up at the polls in november you will be asked, or you could be asked to show your voter i.d., but understand this new ruling you don't have to show it. both sides indeed calling this a victory. it comes from commonwealth judge robert simpson. he backed the law originally and let voter i.d. stay but it's not

enforced in order to vote. he blocked part of the law that requires people without an i.d. to vote by provisional ballot if they provide documentation within six days. he feared that could diseven franchise voters if people couldn't come up with the proof. he's also concerned about the distribution of id's for voters. he says i question whether sufficient time remains. i expected more photo i.d.'s to be issued at this time. in the remaining five weeks before the general election the gap between the photo id's issued and the estimated need will not be closed. opponents charged the law was aimed at minorities and the elderly from voting. supporters say that is not true it could help stop voter fraud. out of more than 8 million voters in pennsylvania the state has said about 759,000 don't have a voter i.d. of those just over 1 1/2%, only 12,000 people have received one, or have even asked for that, they are being issued at a rate of about 200 a day.

today deputy secretary of state shannon rorar told us, we are pleased that today's court decision upholds pennsylvania's voter tip. d.'s law. it will be implemented on a different timeframe. others like the naacp demanded the ruling too they are opponents of voter i.d. they said it should have come sooner and they hope to permanently stop similar laws. it comes on a day when early voting in person has begun in iowa and florida. voters do not need a voter i.d. to vote in ohio but they do need to show a voter i.d. if vote nothing florida. if you suspect voting problems where you live. we want to know about it. vote every fraud at foxnews.com is our address and we are getting slammed with emails. >> reporter: i know you are. eric shawn, thank you. i appreciate you staying on this. listen up parents that massive peanut butter recall is expanding, it's already linked to at least 30 cases of salmonella in 19 different

states. now the company linked to the outbreak is recalling more than 100 nut products, some of them are sold at major retailers like target and whole foods. trace gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom and trace i found our bee tput butte peanut butter in our kitchen cabinet and had to return it. >> reporter: the reason this is big it's got the domino effect because sunland incorporated based in new mexico, the problem is they distribute nuts and butter products to a number of major grocery stores around the country and other food distributors. now products are being recalled. it all links back those 19 states and 30 cases link back to trader joe's. now take a look at the list if you will, ali, of the other stores and the products that are involved. trader joes the valencia plan. safe way, whole foods, earth balance and the naturally more, fresh and easy is their store

name brand. spouts, all the stores named-brand products if have you those you need to return them or throw them out. if you missed any of that list don't worry you can go on the fda's website and they have the whole thing laid out for you. it's important because of course salmonella is a big, big problem for kids, and of course kids eat most of the peanut butter. check the fda website. >> reporter: thanks so much for that update. parents check 'cupboards. less and week after israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu sounded the alarm on the threat that iran's nuclear designs pose we hear directly from u.s. senate candidate pete hook stra who just returned from meeting with top israeli officials he is next. serious questions about the fort hood gunman as he continues to collect a check from uncle sam. one victim's wife is having why the government is refusing to

give combat benefits to the victims and their families. the first time ever look at what happens inside a plane when it crashes, including details that could actually save your life. jenna shared her recipe with sharon,

who emailed it to emily, who sent it to cindy, who wondered why her soup wasn't quite the same. the recipe's not the recipe... ohhh. [ female announcer ] ...without swanson. the broth cooks trust most when making soup. mmmm! [ female announcer ] the secret is swanson. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth!

>> a red line should be drawn right here before, before iran completes the second stage of nuclear enrichment necessary to make a bomb. alisyn: well israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu drew a literal hard line at his u.n. speech last week insisting on limits to iran's controversial nuclear program. just earlier today iran responded calling this display childish and primitive and vowing to push ahead. after spending some time with some high-ranking israeli officials in assessing the

security situation across the middle east says benjamin netanyahu isn't the only one expressing brave concerns. pete hoekstra is a former republican congressman out of michigan and a former chairman of the house permanent collect committee on intelligence and a candidate for u.s. senate. thank you so much for being here. >> good to be with you. alisyn: you just returned from the middle east. as you said you had many high-level meetings with government officials. what did they tell you? >> i think what they are telling is very, very clear. i served on the joint inquiry that looked at intelligence failures after 9/11. i led the conference committee that rewrote our intelligence laws in 2004 to make sure that, you know, in the future our intelligence community would always be able to connect the dots, identify threats before something terrible happened. what i heard in israel and the thing that i've been very nervous about, based on my experience in the intelligence community, is that once again america is not connecting the dots. what are are the big dots that

are out there? number one iran now is one year away from having a nuclear capability. number two, the muslim brotherhood, a radical jihaddist group is running the government in egypt. and number three, we have large parts of northern africa and the middle east that now have weak central governments, which means that large parts of that area are now breeding and trading grounds for al-qaida. you put those three things together it's a dangerous environment, number one for israel, but also for the united states of america, and we keep talking about the arab spring. this is not an arab spring, this is an upheaval in the middle east that we are not taking seriously enough. the threats are huge. alisyn: did these israeli officials and middle east government officials tell you what they plan to do about iran's nuclear threat? >> well, i think -- we didn't get into that detail. obviously they are looking for america to provide the

leadership in the middle east that we've provided in the past. their assessment is that america has stepped back, this void has been create, this void is now being filled by radical elements in each of these countries and is making the middle east a very threatening area both a threat to israel and to the west, and to the united states of america. alisyn: i read in your statement when you just returned that what they told you was they want america to be america again. what would that look like? >> well what it would be like, rather than apologizing for a video that is producer in some obscure corner of america, have america stand up and say, no, we value freedom of speech, go to the egyptian government, as they are persecuting and killing coptics around their country and say that is totally unacceptable, you need to protect religious freedoms, to hold these countries accountable for their behaviors and their actions. what they are saying righ are

seeing right now is a weak america as many have described it for the last two and a half years, america continually on an apology tour, not standing up for our values, most importantly they want an america that recognizes the threat that is out there, please connect the dots, otherwise israel will be in trouble, and america will face serious challenge and we'll do another future inquiry as to why didn't we connect the dots, and it will be how could we be so stupid. iran, muslim brother hood, ungoverned areas of course everyone should have picked out this this was a very, very dangerous scenario, but our leadership both politically and the intelligence community once again failed to connect the dots. alisyn: back to benghazi for a second. it does seem that we missed -- we neglected connecting the dots before our ambassador was killed. now that the administration seems to have got even on th got gotten on the same page and

agreed this was a terrorist attack, how should we respond in. >> we have to go back and put the pieces back together. clearly we missed the dots. what were they? number one our ambassador went to benghazi on 9/11. 9/11 is one dot. the second dot is we have a record in recent months of a number of terrorist attacks in benghazi. we knew it was a dangerous place to be. and thirdly, we knew we had a weak central government in libya, we had a resurgent al-qaida in the benghazi area, somewhere along the line people didn't connect that and say you know what, it's really a bad idea for us to have a facility in benghazi, and it's even a worse idea to let our ambassador go there on 9/11. alisyn: congressman pete hoekstra thank you so much for coming in and giving us an update on your visit. we appreciate it. remember the promises during the healthcare debate that you can keep your doctor if you like your doctor? now that president obama signed it into law a new report finds that may not be the case for

people working for two major employers. we are going to tell you about some radical changes to coverage for you. loose seats prompting american airlines to ground eight of its planes.

♪ it's beginning to look a lot like christmas everywhere you go. >> not already. it's not even halloween yet, but major retailers are announcing big holiday hiring plans. but there's another story behind these numbers. elizabeth macdonald is here there the fox business network with more. >> reporter: good to see you. companies are hiring more workers for the christmas shopping season, but the question is, is that really a

good sign for the labor market? now, macy's is saying it will add 80,000 christmas workers adding to toys r us, target, walmart and kohls but some economists have looked at the hiring trends as an indication that the tight job market might be easing. but is that so? job analysts at grey and christmas expect 700,000 temporary holiday jobs this season, and that's going to be up from 660,000 temp jobs last year. however, retailers always hire workers ahead of christmas before getting rid of them in january, and one of the reasons why retailers have increased their seasonal hiring this year is not just because retailers see a better sales environment, instead retailers have cut back on their work force so dramatically because of the economy that they need to hire more temps now to handle the typical christmas rush. all of that likely a temporary

boost to jobs numbers. back to you. alisyn: thanks for all that context. new developments on one of our top stories, this morning's court ruling on one state's voter id laws. some conservative groups already calling it a, quote, victory for voter fraud. and a new push by victims' families in the fort hood shooting to get recognition for what their loved ones suffered. we'll tell you what the family of staff sergeant sean manning is now trying to accomplish and why it matters so much to not only his family, but the families of all the victims that day. plus, we'll give you an unprecedented first-person view of what goes on during a plane crash from inside the cabin.

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alisyn: fox news alert now on new developments in an faa investigation. the agency is looking into why seats came loose on three american airlines flights. american grounded eight planes that could potentially have seat problems. now, all eight recently underwent maintenance. the airline says it does not believe the incidents are related to an ongoing labor dispute. fox's trace gallagher has more from our west coast newsroom. >> reporter: we all know that american airlines is in bankruptcy protection, right? and they've got no ongoing battle over unionized employees

including the mechanics and, yes, experts say that this smacks of deliberately taking these seats and loosening them or, yes, sabotage. but, look, the faa and a lot of experts have said there is absolutely no evidence of sabotage, and they cite a couple reasons. one, because the seats were removed and replaced at different maintenance facilities, and all of these 757s in question have the very same configuration. but everyone agrees if it's not sabotage, it is certainly sloppy because it wasn't just a few rows. after the faa checked this out, maintenance investigators checked this out, they found more than a dozen rows that were loose. here's what a pilot said to air traffic control after he took off, and i'm quote withing here: >> reporter: and now listen to what one of the passengers whose son was in the seat said.

>> my son's seat, it was kind of, like, rickety, almost falling off. we were trying to push it in, hold it in longer. >> reporter: yeah. remember, the faa's scott brenner says this is a big deal because your seat on an airplane is your lifeline. listen. >> people pass out when they hit 4gs, these seats are designed so withstand 16gs worth of force, so when you look at crashes, it's very rare that you will see or almost unheard of that you will see a seat that's popped out of the aircraft frame. >> reporter: so you've got maintenance crews and the faa that's on the ground checking these various 757s, and they'll probably look at all of them just to double check. you see the pilots walking there. there's been this ongoing dispute, thousands of flights have been canceled, thousands more have been delayed because of maintenance issues. the pilots calling in things like busted coffee pots and then calling out sick. american has threatened legal

action, so right now the unionized workers and american airlines are at loggerheads. but again, there is no evidence, says the faa, that any of this was sabotage or deliberate. alisyn: yeah. we sure hope they will check all the planes. trace gallagher, thanks so much. >> reporter: okay. ♪ alisyn: back now to one of our lead stories from the top of the hour. a pennsylvania judge deciding to put a voter id law on hold that had passed every single lower court decision with flying colors. so could this have an effect on similar laws across the country? here to debate it is alan colmes, host of the alan colmess show, and lars larson, syndicated radio host. gentlemen, thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> you bet. alisyn: alan, big development today. when the pennsylvania judge decided not to enforce, actually sort of freeze this law so it

could not be enacted during this upcoming presidential race. the law would have required every voter to show a photo id. not a driver's license, just a state-issued photo id. why is that considered so onerous? >> it's onerous because in certain places it's very hard to go to get the right kind of id. they only accept certain kinds of ids. the majority leader of the pennsylvania house actually said this is what's going to help romney win. this is something that's happening only in red states by republican legislators to address an issue which isn't even happening. when fraud happens, it happens when votes, voters register to vote as was the problem with the firm hired by republicans in florida and other states. republicans who have had this problem with registering voters, but at the polls there's almost no incidence of fraud and even fewer convictions. it's a solution in search of a problem is exactly what it is. >> oh, boy.

alisyn: lars? >> bologna. alisyn: would you like to expound on your theory? >> usually bologna works really well with alan -- >> thank you. >> listen, there's no voter fraud being detected because you don't require anybody to prove who her. the fact is -- who they are. the fact is that americans' voting rights are sacred, and they should only be extended to people who are american citizens. and asking american citizens to prove who they are is something that americans routinely do to check into a hotel, to get on an airplane, to cash a check, for any number of reasons. i was just in washington, d.c., i was asked for my id about a dozen different times. you have to show voter id to get into the department of justice to see eric holder, the attorney general who's the guy who's fighting this voter id. it is not unreasonable to ask everyone in america who seeks to vote to prove that they are really entitled to vote -- >> the brennan center at nyu and

a number of other studies on this actually show this is not a problem. when fraud happens, it happens when people register to vote, when they show id, and that's why this republican firm has now been fired by the gop because they're the ones who have had all this problem falsely registering people. >> you're wrong about that. >> i'm not wrong, lars. please let me finish. i'm sorry the fact -- alisyn: finish, alan, and, obviously, there are examples of voter fraud, and we've all seen it. >> i'm not saying it's never happened, but the statistics show it happens during registration, and this is an attempt on the part of republicans in red states to narrow the number of people who will vote because -- alisyn: go ahead, lars. >> more bologna. the voter act says when you go down to the dmv or the post office -- >> not everybody drives. >> i'm going to tell you something, alan, in the state i'm sitting in the right now, oregon, there were thousands of votes counted in the last

presidential election from people who had registered by mail and were required by state law to show voter id, but when it came to election day and they said what should we do with all these votes from people who never walked in and confirmed their id with picture id after registering by mail, the state said go ahead and count the votes. that's wrong. and that's one of the flaws many your argument. you do not necessarily show -- you don't show picture id when you register because a lot of people register by mail. >> my argument is about the fact that besides it not really being a problem and people have to often travel hundreds of miles to get the right kind of id because not any kind of id is acceptable, it is not easy for people who are poor -- >> so what? voting shouldn't be easy necessarily. >> i didn't interrupt you. people who are elderly, young people who go to school, these are the people who they think are going to vote democratic. why is it only republicans who are trying to narrow the vote and democrats who want to expand the number of people?

the more people vote, the more people vote democratic. alisyn: how do you explain what you just said. you said it shouldn't be easy to vote. shouldn't it? isn't that sort of our god-given right as americans? you disagree. >> every part of voting takes effort. informing yourself takes effort, going to the polls, as alan just pointed out, it's too much trouble for the people alan's talking about to go get ids -- b. >> that's not the issue. >> having to go out in the middle of a fall that may be full of rain and snow to go physically to a polling place in most places in america and cast a ballot. it is hard to vote. effort is required, and there's nothing wrong with that. >> you want an iq tax? you want a poll tax? alisyn: thanks for the spirited debate. >> god bless you, alan, and all your confusion. alisyn: thank you, guys. breaking developments at the u.s./mexico border. a manhunt now underway after two border patrol agents are shot and one is killed. and up next, sean manning is a

soldier who was shot six times during the massacre at fort hood. now his wife is leading the charge to get her husband and others something called combat status. why this is so important to the victims and to their families and why she says the administration is fighting them on it. and a horrifying moment caught on video when a skateboarder and a deer collide at high speeds.

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an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. alisyn: a fox news alert on what seems like a rub of the -- run of the mill political decision getting a lot of attention. $65 million -- $165 million is being spent to refurbish a correctional center normally not a big deal except for recent warnings from one lawmakers who is worried this prison could be used to house terror suspects.

shannon bream joins us live there washington. >> reporter: hi. well, there has long been a dispute over thompson correctional center, this is in illinois and whether or not it would be used to bring detainees onto u.s. soil. here's what we can confirm. the federal government has bought that facility, we're told not with money from the defense department, instead the funding is apparently coming from the justice department. congress, by the way, not involved, and some say this is an end run that while it's not illegal in any way, it is highly unusual. in 2009 president obama did send a memo to both the justice and defense d.s to arrange for ownership of the facility and prepare to take on federal prisoners, possibly some from guantanamo bay. a number of republican lawmakers, chief among them congressman frank wolf from virginia, led efforts to block the use of federal dollars so it couldn't be bought. wolf has also said he does not trust the defense department not

to send gitmo prisoners to how thompson. senator dick durbin's office confirms the sale. you mentioned the amount, $165 million, and apparently this is a direct deal between the federal government and illinois meaning congress is not involved. durbin's office also says today that gitmo prisoners are not going to be located at this facility. that is the official word. we're working to conform more now -- confirm more now. alisyn: all right, shannon, thanks so much for that update. serious new questions about the government's response to the fort hood massacre near he three afters -- nearly three years after nidal hasan was accused of opening fire on his fellow soldiers. he is still getting paycheck from uncle sam, something that outrages at least one shooting victim's wife who also says she feels ignored by president obama. autumn manning's husband, sean, was shot multiple times, he nearly died. she argues this was terrorism, not workplace violence, and says

her husband and others deserve combat status just like 9/11 victims at the pentagon received. combat status makes them eligible for purple hearts and other benefits. so far the government has denied this to them, so now she's taking her message to twitter, earlier writing, quote: >> reporter: and telling a fellow vet's wife, quote, this administration will not continue to sweep us under the rug. pete is the ceo of concerned veterans for america. hi, pete. >> hi. alisyn: so autumn manning has been expressing her great frustration on social media, on twitter, and she wants her husband and others to have combat status bestowed on them. how would that change their lives? >> very much so. if you, if you recognize the attack by may jar hasan -- major hasan as what it is, terrorism,

that requires a whole different set of things tod it recognizes the fact that this guy was motivated by and in contact with al-qaeda, that this was effectively a behind enemy lines operation by al-qaeda to kill 13 americans, wound 34 including this staff sergeant, and he would be bestowed a purple heart. but it's part of a larger question here. the minute you classify this as islamic terrorism, then you've opened up this box as far as the administration is concerned about calling the enemy what it is. this administration doesn't want to name the enemy, and that's part of what we've seen not just in here, but it'll bring to light what a lot of people have seen in libya recently, the administration saying it was a spontaneous video based on -- spontaneous reaction to an internet video as opposed to an attack on 9/11 to kill our ambassador with heavy weapons. we forget, right? fort hood was three years ago. who here has thought about fort hood over the last year? pretty much nobody. but these people do not forget, and we cannot because we haven't

named the enemy, and we need to. alisyn: you know, once again we see a bit of a mixed message from the administration. senator joe lieberman was holding hearings about this a couple of years ago, and he pressed secretary janet napolitano and said this is extremist terrorism, and she said, i agree. she said at that time, i agree. so clearly, not everyone is speaking with the same voice, and what would it cost the administration to give them combat status or purple heart? it seems like a low price for a symbol that is really important to these victims. >> well, at a large level it would undercut the entire narrative they've created, that they're above this whole, this whole war with radical islam, the fact that there are people out there that want to kill us. they think if they give a speech in cairo, they think if they apologize for a video that everyone will just like them. well, the reality is there are people out there who hate us, who seek to do us harm not just

in iraq and afghanistan and elsewhere, but in our country, fort hood three years ago. and because we don't name that enemy, we're not equipped the way we need to ideologically and in many ways to take on that threat. so we kick the can down the road, and we classify it as overseas contingency operations or domestic workplace violence as as opposed to radical islamic terrorism which allows all our agencies to do another set of things to actually address the threat. so they're kicking the can down the road by sanitizing the actually threat and not taking it on. alisyn: autumn manning is also upset that president obama never called sergeant manning after this to express, um, any of his concerns. he did, president obama, did go to fort hood, he did meet with some of the victims' families, but he didn't call sergeant manning personally. is that the responsibility of the president? >> well, i think that's a nice gesture, what should be done. and, again, i don't want to pivot from what happened in fort hood because we shouldn't forget

it, but you saw the same thing in libya. we immediately had ceremonies, you know, acknowledging what had happened, and then the administration essentially wants to stop talking about it. but the fbi isn't there, the people who have committed this attack have not been held accountable. so you hear a lot of mirrors, a lot of rhetoric, some ceremonies and very little follow-up. and veterans and military members have seen this from this administration whether it's military voting, money that didn't actually help them vote, whether it's the va backlog that's doubled since 2008, whether it's our debt that's gone up by six trillion, there's a lot of talk and not a lot of solutions. alisyn: pete, thanks. we have an update on the lawsuit involving cheerleaders told to remove banners from the field because they included messages from the bible. now there's a ruling in this case. we'll tell you if they have reason to cheer. and we're getting a look at what it's like to be inside a jumbo jet as it crashes. we'll show you the video and tell you the story behind this crash next.

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jay also like it when mother nature helps him wash his car. mother nature's cool like that. mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. alisyn: wait until you see this. it's a chilling video that shows a rare and horrifying view from inside the cabin of a plane that's about to crash. the discovery channel recreating what's supposed to be the biggest plane crash in history, staging a first of its kind experiment showing exactly what happens to passengers during every single twist and turn. trace gallagher joins us live in los angeles. this is terrifying, trace. >> reporter: very cool. i was just watching that, it was a 727 about 170-seat plane, and it really is the biggest deliberate crash ever. i mean, you watch this thing, right? discovery did this. they had pilots fly to baja, california, then minutes before the crash the two pilots jumped

out. they had, of course, cameras on their helmets. there were also cameras on chase planes, 38 cameras mounted inside and outside the plane, so the footage is spectacular. now take a lock at the footage from outside. this is the plane actually crashing, okay? it comes in about 200-plus miles per hour. it hits just above the desert floor, and watch it hit. the landing here, by the way, was down. it folds up immediately, the tip goes off. the first class cabin gets sustain to the other side. take a look at this thing from the inside. this thing was filled with crash test dummies. this is what the crash looked like inside about five seconds before it hits, right? you can see the wings, here it comes. inside, boom. imagine the impact. you'll get a better view here of actually what the passengers would have seen had they been in this plane. right? crash test dummies were in it. if the plane crash is survivable, it's because of the brace position.

listen. >> the brace position dummy did the best. although we did see some ankle injuries, and it depends on how you put your feet. and, um, that could be true for any of the dummies depending on how you had your feet. but basically the idea is to have a small distance between you and the seat in front of you so that you don't develop a velocity and high-impact forces. >> yeah. because if you sit up, you get that whiplash effect and debris which is deadly. the curiosity plane crash airs sunday, this sunday 9 p.m. on the channel. very cool video -- on the discovery channel. alisyn: you call it cool, i call it horrifying. thanks for the nightmares for the next month, trace. meanwhile, breaking news on the security situation in libya prior to the deadly attack on the u.s. consulate. that report and former secretary of defense under george w. bush, donald rumsfeld, is here to discuss what those documents show. plus, new questions about whether you can keep your doctor

or even your health insurance as the president promised after a report suggests that two major u.s. employers are launching a radical change to their employee coverage. >> but we have to pass the spill so that -- bill so that you can find --, we have big dreams.

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we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now. alisyn: we have a fox news alert for you on news that we broke moments ago. it's the sale of a prison in illinois that was identified at one point as a possible home for gitmo prisoners should they ever be moved to the united states. welcome to a new hour of "america live," i'm allison cam rat to in for megyn kelly today. fox news confirms that $165 million is being spent to purchase the thompson correctional center. normally not a big deal except for those recent warnings from one lawmaker who is worried this prison could be used to house potentially dangerous terror suspects. frank wolf is a republican congressman out of virginia, he joins me now.

congressman, tell us what concerns you so much about this sale. >> this is $165 million earmark for the state of illinois which is bankrupt. it violates the obama administration's own earmark policy. it violates it. also, it's strongly opposed by the families, and it sets the stage for the closure of guantanamo baby increasing space for de-- by increasing space either at that prison or at the supermax in colorado. and lastly, it jumps illinois, thompson prison where they were originally thinking of taking the guantanamo people, it jumps them above new hampshire, alabama, every other state of the union. and it's an earmark that they say is not appropriate, and yet they have done this. alisyn: as we you said it, congress -- understand it, congress specifically prohibited the transfer of gitmo prisoners to the u.s. how does this play into that?

>> they could right after the election by executive order, they could do this. what they're doing here violates the law. you have never had a reprogramming of $165 million earmark, never been done. and yet they've done it. alisyn: how do you know this'll be used for gitmo prisoners? >> well, you could then put the people into supermax in colorado in thomson and then move the people from guantanamo there. the president's goal was to shut down guantanamo bay and move the prisoners here. this gives him a good opportunity to do it, particularly right after the election. alisyn: you're a congressman in virginia. why are you so concerned about what's going on in illinois if how did you -- >> well, we have stopped earmarks here in congress. so what you've had, the obama administration violating the earmark ban and having $165 million. secondly, you probably have a justice department that, i mean, fast and furious and so many others, one of the most

dysfunctional justice d.s -- didn'ts we've ever had. the 9/11 families are opposed, they're concerned they'll move began guantanamo people, and they're now moving people out. they're moving others. they either move them to thomson because this is where they wanted to go, or they move them out to the supermax out in colorado. alisyn: congressman, what is the solution here? to keep terror suspects at gitmo indefinitely? >> well, you certainly don't want anybody from guantanamo bay to come to the united states. if they do, all the constitutional rights will be given to them, so under no circumstances do you want anyone from guantanamo bay, the trials would be there, and they ought to be held there, but they should not come to the united states. don't you remember when they were going to bring them to new york city? mayor bloomberg was opposed to it, the police commissioner was

a -- was opposed to it. it would be a mistake. alisyn: congressman frank wolf, thanks so much for bringing this to our attention. >> thank you. alisyn: to afghanistan now where we have some questions about the lack of military voter assistance ahead of the election. but first, colonel oliver north wants to share with us an amazing experience he had out on patrol just this morning. colonel north? we understand there's a little delay in our signal, but, please, tell us what happened. >> reporter: we have been out on operations with afghan and u.s. special operations troops, here is just some of what took place this morning on operation new recovery. we were on a brief inspection of this tiny bazaar that's only been open for less than a year when one of the outposts that we were at yesterday was hit.

they're under attack right now, an ied apparently detonated beneath one of the afghan national police vehicles. they need help, and help's on the way. >> we've got eyes on the situation, see what's going on. we also requested air assets to get overhead and see if we can put some sort of indirect fire on 'em. >> what's your recommendation, medevac 'em? >> he's got to go, he's got minimum. >> in the aftermath of the explosion, these two afghan local police officers were brought here to the special operations outpost. here they were treated by medical specialists, one of them seriously injured by the concussion, is being medically evacuate today a u.s. field hospital, something the afghan local police can count on as long as there's u.s. forces on the ground. we will back them up. the second important message is this: most of the casualties from the taliban ieds aren't americans, they're afghans. they are, indeed, afghan

casualties. most of what the taliban does inflicts casualties on their own countrymen. the good news is the united states is still here backing them up, as you just saw. alisyn: and, colonel north, quickly, we are hearing reports here in the states that military voting is way down in this election cycle. what are the troops saying to you in the field? >> i've done my own informal off the record polls out here, and roughly 50% of those who have asked for ballots have not yet received them. of course, the good news is, there is still time. the big question is, how many of those who asked for them will never get them, and if there are numbers who haven't asked for them, we've got to find out why. back to you. alisyn: colonel north, thank you so much for that story. meanwhile, growing outrage back here at home over those reports that u.s. troops are not getting the voter assistance they need in the field. in virginia alone there was a 92% drop in absentee ballot

requests by service members as of a couple of weeks ago. texas senator john cornyn says this is unacceptable, it's a failure, he says, by pentagon leaders to comply with a 2009 law that was supposed to make it easier for our soldiers to vote. guy benson is political editor of town hall.com. hi, guy. >> hey, how's it going? alisyn: senator cornyn expressed his serious concerns about this precipitous drop in requests of absentee ballots by our soldiers overseas. what do you think is going on here? >> that's a very good question, and it's something that we need to find out quickly. as you said, in virginia alone we've seen a 92% drop in requests for absentee ballots, that number is over 50% in terms of the major states like florida, ohio and nevada. so i think there's a lot of people on the political side of this scratching their heads. as you mentioned, senator cornyn and a group of other republicans

have shot off a letter to the defense secretary say, hey, it's time for explanations, and what they're really upset about not necessarily, allison, the raw numbers that people aren't requesting as many ballots out in the field, but rather a recent report that's come out from the pentagon's inspector general which shows that this 2009 law, the military and overseas voter empowerment act, again, that was just a few years ago, was supposed to make military voting much easier. and one of the requirements wase on-base set-ups where military personnel were given a lot of assistance to make sure that they were enfranchised and able to vote and what this report has shown is that at least half of military bases still lack that basic requirement of legal compliance. and i just don't think there's a single excuse for that. alisyn: so what is that? i mean, i guess the answer is we don't know yet, but is it just about belt tightening? is it about bureaucracy that doesn't allow all of these

officers? i mean, as you said, there's supposed to be 229 or at least investigators attempted to contact, 29 of those voter assistance offices you just talked about, and they were only able to get ahold of half of those, only half seemed to be open and functioning. >> yeah. and i guess the question is -- i can understand maybe a little bit of a dropoff in terms of ballot requests from our military men and women versus 2008. there was a little more excitement and hype surrounding that '08 election, but these guys and gals, they are no less deployed today than they were then, and i think that one thing that everyone from all across the political spectrum on both sides of the aisle should be able to agree upon is the people who are fighting on the front lines should have absolute, unquestioned access to the ballot in an attempt to vote for their commander in chief. i think this is a total no-brainer, and from a purely political perspective, of course, allison, republicans that i talk to are worried about this because the military tend

to vote pretty overwhelmingly for republicans. these are major states that are seeing down ticks in participation or potential participation for the military. that could very much impact the november election. alisyn: guy benson, thanks so much for helping us look at these numbers. new questions today about what the media is reporting on, our economy, ahead of tomorrow's presidential debate. we'll show you how this could impact the argument between president obama and governor romney tomorrow night. and breaking news in this hour on the attack on our consulate in libya. it killed, of course, four americans including our u.s. ambassador. why some were already raising red flags about security and claim they were just being ignored. former secretary of defense don rumsfeld will join us on the story. and new questions about whether you can just keep your doctor or even keep your insurance. the new report out on two major u.s. employers launching a radical change to employee insurance plans.

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alisyn: fox news alert on another developing story today as we got our hands on documents that shows american diplomats had requested extra security prior to that deadly attack on the consulate in libya and that those requests were repeatedly denied by the u.s. government. we've already heard questions about security at the consulate prior to the attack, but this is the first time we're hearing that requests to step things up were actually denied. the attack cost u.s. ambassador chris stevens and three others their lives. former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld joins us to discuss these latest develops later this hour. stay tuned for that.

♪ >> if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. period. if you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. period. no one will take it away, no matter what. alisyn: well, new questions today about that now-famous promise from the president. two major american employers have announced what some call a, quote, radical change in how they provide health benefits to their workers. sears holdings corp. and dorden restaurants which owns chains like red lobster and olive garden are now dropping company-sponsored health care coverage, and instead they're giving employers a fixed sum of money allowing them to choose their own medical coverage. so let's debate this. steve moore, senior economics writer for "the wall street journal", dr -- [inaudible] ceo of vital springs technologies and author of "get off the dime: the secret of

changing who pays for your health care." and simon rosenberg, president and founder of the new democrat network, also a former clinton campaign adviser. gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. steve, let me start with you. so places like sears and olive garden, red lobster, they're going to give their employees a chunk of change, and supposedly you can go out and buy your own insurance. is this a great idea or a horrible idea? [laughter] >> i actually kind of like the direction here of, basically, saying to workers you can shop around, you can buy the health care plan that really suits your need. so it's a kind of freedom of choice approach. now, the way this ties in, by the way, allison, to obama's health care plan that you were talking about a minute ago is that under obama's plan what you're seeing is a lot of employers are dropping their health care plans that they provided for years to their employers, and they're going to put those workers into what's

called the health care exchange under obamacare. that's something that workers are resisting because it means they're not going to get the kind of quality of care that they want. the idea of giving people a wide range of options, though, as these two companies are doing, i'm fully supportive of that. alisyn: okay, doctor, are you as sanguine as steve moore is about this is just competition, and it will help, and people will be able to make their own choices with medical care? >> the in the ideal world, competition and choice is great. but history will tell us many employers have already tried this, given employees fixed contributions, and it doesn't work. it doesn't work because you can't give the same amount of money to every individual. it doesn't work because the wrong people end up selling -- sending -- secting the wrong kinds of plans. so if you're somebody with diabetes and high blood pressure and a lot of medical problems, you need to be smart enough and know enough to know which plans you're going to pick. otherwise what happens? costs go up. you end up not having the money,

not having the benefits when you need them, and then if you can't get the benefits or the coverage, what happens? you end up back in the emergency room. so while this notion by sears and darden may seem innovative, there's a lot of companies that have tried this defined contribution plan before, and it hasn't been that successful. alisyn: simon, what happened to if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period. if you like your insurance carrier, you can keep your coverage, period? >> i think what the president was referring to is that under the aca, his health care reform, that there was nothing he was going to do or that they were doing that would prevent, that would push people out of their own health care plans. there's nothing the government was doing and, in fact, the fact that the private market is innovating in this way -- and whether it works or not, we'll find out -- is a sign this was not a government takeover of the health care system as you've heard many people say over the last couple months. i think what we need in this health care, and i think the president has begun this, we need more innovation, more

efforts to give people more choice. we've got to control costs, get more people on health insurance, and i just want to comment on something steve said. he said something that is just completely false. he argued that there are many businesses that are moving people to put them into the exchanges. there aren't any exchanges. these respect even set up -- these aren't even set up. it certainly hasn't happened yet, and that's just a bald-faced lie. >> as you know, a lot of companies have made this announcement -- >> steve, name the companies. name the companies, steve. >> but here -- >> name the companies. >> let me make a point -- alisyn: wait -- >> you're just making this up. alisyn: let steve respond. >> no, no. let me address your first point, though, about the fact that the obama plan doesn't move people out of the plans that they want. we know that's going to happen, and the reason that's going to happen, allison, is because president obama promised that his plan was going to reduce premiums for health care plans by $2500 a year. in fact, what's happened since the obama plan passed was that

health care premiums have increased by $2500. here's the reason that people are then, businesses are going to drop their plans, they can't afford it any longer because obamacare was supposed to reduce costs -- >> right. >> but it's increased costs. alisyn: simon, in keeping with what i think steve was say, the cbo predicts we may see more companies follow the lead of sears and let their employees buy the coverage through those exchanges -- >> agreed. but sears is not allowing them to buy them through the exchanges. this is a group health effort because the exchanges don't exist. this is completely unrelated to the obama health care reform in the sense -- >> but this is -- >> -- they're not dumping people into the exchange. >> this is an exchange that was set up, but the reality is that if you're going to empower these employees of sears or darden, they might as well put slot machines in their lobby as opposed to giving them the kind of information they need.

if people were smart enough to make those kinds of decisions about what benefits they need to buy and what doctors they need to choose, we wouldn't be having this debate today. >> wait, wait, wait a minute -- >> the reality is, look -- >> what you're basically saying, doctor, you're basically saying people are too stupid to make these decisions. >> no. in fact, we have not empowered them with the right information. i'm not saying that they're stupid. >> look, we have, we have plans right now, for example, with high deductible plans, health savings accounts that actually have saved boatloads of money. >> no. >> there's a new study that shows if you increase these plans, you could save about $15 billion a year. alisyn: gentlemen, obviously, we could talk about this for a long time. you all made great points, steve, doctor, simon, thank you very much for coming. a high school cheerleading squad heading to court over banners during a football game. plus, the skateboarder, the deer and the collision at 40

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alisyn: here's the proof that you really need to watch the road in deer country. a skateboarder in a professional skateboard race is going downhill at 40 miles per hour when a deer tries to run through a gap in the racers, and you can guess the results. it's a little easier to see in this video. the deer hits the guy square in the chest. he goes flying off his board and into the gravel. thankfully, he was wearing his helmet. he reportedly suffered only minor injuries, and we're told the deer was okay as well.

♪ well, a legal battle brewing in texas where a public high school cheerleading squad is facing complaints over its religious banners. fox's trace gal we are is live -- gallagher is live in los angeles with more. >> reporter: this is about 85 miles north of houston, and the high school, the cheerleaders thought it would be fantastic idea if before the first three football games they came up with these banner, you see it right there, that said things like thanks be to god which gives us victory through the lord, jesus christ, and other banners. and, of course, right as the game was about to begin, the football team would come crashing through those banners. they did that for the first three games, and here's the players and cheerleaders. >> we are getting the word of god out and can just showing our spirit through him, and he's touched our football team, our school, everything just by the few scriptures that we have showed the past three weeks. >> whenever i run through the signs, it makes me feel like god's there with me. you know?

i feel like he's come over the top of the whole team to protect us through our game. >> reporter: ah, but the school superintendent banned the banners because he got a complaint from freedom from religion, the group out of washington who said this clearly violates the separation of church and state. here's somebody else who opposes those banners. listen. >> the school can't support one religion over another, and you can't have bible scriptures by cheerleaders at an official school game. >> reporter: yeah, well now a state court has temporarily lifted the ban on the banners after a group promoting religious freedom agreed to represent the cheerleaders and the football players and, of course, the attorney general who's a republican in texas all weighed in backing the cheerleaders. so now the final court decision will come this week, and it all kind of comes down to whether or not these banners are being endorsed by the school or whether they are the personal beliefs of the cheerleaders, though we looked back, and cases like this have lost like in

georgia and a 2000 supreme court decision which said kids cannot go on the intercom and say prayerses before the games start. so right now weighing a little bit more in freedom from religion's court than in the students' court. alisyn: all right. thanks so much for that background, trace. just ahead, we have breaking news on the shooting of a border agent in arizona. plus, breaking details in the benghazi consulate attack investigation. there are new documents that detail security warnings from the consulate staff, apparently ignored by washington. former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld joins us straight ahead. customer erin swenson bought from us online today.

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with premiums as low as zero dollars a month. but don't wait. the last day to enroll is december seventh. call now. alisyn: fox news alert for you now on a massive manhunt underway in southern arizona after two border patrol agents are shot, one of them fatally. this is near a border patrol station that was recently named for their fallen colleague, brian terry. fox's william la jeunesse is following the story from los angeles, he joins us now live. what's the latest, william? >> reporter: can there's virtually an army out there of agents and deputy on the ground, helicopters in the air looking for the shooter or shooters. this happened near state route 80 which connects to interstate 10. that is why this is a very active drug-smuggling corridor. early this morning, around 2 a.m., a sensor went off. three agents responded, one on

horseback. he was shot and killed, no age or id yet. another agent was airlifted to a nearby hospital, he's going to be okay, and a third agent was not hit. now, naco covers about 1200 square miles including 32 miles of border, most of that without a fence or a barrier. teams of backpackers then haul cocaine and marijuana, meth and heroin into drop spots near these highways for pick up, or they load into these hidden suvs, and off it goes. now, this is an area that not long ago, as you know, brian terry was shot about 90 miles away. and i've spoken to people who are involved in that investigation, they are holding their breathing praying that something -- another agent is not killed by one of these weapons. is so right now, ali, the so know rah -- sonora desert, temperatures are dropping. right now you've got no one in custody, no firearms recovered, and we're expecting a presser

coming up in about 30 minutes. alisyn: all right. keep us updated, and let's hope they can get those guys. thanks so much. ♪ alisyn: now to the campaign trail and tomorrow's debate. watch for the economy, of course, to be a big focus tomorrow night, and some economic writers have been questioning the recent media reports that suggest a big recovery or even a small recovery is well underway. in just the last few weeks, we've seen revised numbers on our economic output showing the economy is actually slowing down. last week we saw the durable goods orders plunged in august 13.2%, durable goods are items expected to last at least three years like cars and other machines. the census recently reported that household income has actually fallen since the so-called recovery began in june of 2009, and consumer spending which is the largest part of the economy has also stalled, rising less than half a percent last

month. let's debate all this. charles payne is the ceo of w street.com and a fox business contributor -- i knew that. julie ro roginsky is former advr to new mexico senator frank lautenberg, and simon constable, author of "wall street journal guide to the 50 economic indicators that really matter." with a dietl like that -- title like that, sounds like i should start with you. there's been a general narrative in the media that, yes, we've been through a rough road, but things are looking up. is that not true? >> well, things may be less bad than they were, but they're not recovering anything like as fast as a normal so-called recovery. normally when you come out of a recession, no matter how deep it is, you come out really, really fast initially, and we haven't done that in this recovery. we've come out very slowly. not a lot of people have depth in the economics. some people do, obviously, but in the general media a lot of

people really don't understand it. it's rather technical, maybe they haven't been through one cycle before, and they haven't actually seen things come out. yes, things are better, but they're not better by nearly enough to keep pace with population growth. alisyn: julie, is that what's going on with the media, that people don't have the depth so they're glossing over things? >> i don't know that -- i agree with what simon said, you're absolutely right, we're not out of this recovery as quickly as anybody would like. i think that's a fact of life, i think the president and mitt romney would agree on that. people understand, the general public, the people that actually vote understand that we were in a morass. it was a recession like no other since 1929, since the crash. and then people are willing to give this president more time to get out of that morass because they understand how deep that recession was and how long it would take to recover. alisyn: but all those things that i just reported on, why don't you hear more -- >> because people like julie are in control. >> i wish. [laughter] >> i don't think it's an

accident, i don't think it's a lack of training, or depth. the idea that this was the worst recession, i think ronald reagan inherited a much worse situation. much higher unemployment, much higher interest rates, much higher crime levels. but this is how they set it up. you set it up to a point where bill clinton said, no one could fix i. but i think if there was a republican in office, we would hear this is a crisis, unemployment over 8%, and if you take the nine million people who dropped out of the job market since inauguration day, it'd be closer to 12%. the fact that we're not seeing this is disingenuous and a disservice to the general public. >> yeah, it's really bad, and partly it's the policies. we're doing a lot of things similar to what happened in japan, and there's a joke that used to go around japan, what's the difference between japan and taiwan, at least one company goes bust in taiwan every day, and in japan that wasn't

happening -- alisyn: because of stimulus? >> no, they were propping up bad companies. alisyn: bailouts. >> in this country we've got banks that are going bust not because of bad account, we've got crazy accounting policies where i'm as tall as charles. [laughter] i'd like to be, but i'm not. and also we've got bailouts of companies that didn't need bailing out, they just needed to go true the bankruptcy process which is completely normal. this is america, you're allowed to fail. you can start again. but if you don't let it fail, it's bad for everybody else. alisyn: but to charles' point, i don't think this is a democrat or relin issue. you have private economists like paul krugman saying that this recovery is not happening fast enough because the stimulus wasn't big enough. there's differences as to why the economy's not recovering, but it's not fair to say that everybody's writing a rosy picture of what's going on right now. >> well, krugman wants more of the stuff thatçui simon --

>> he wants more government. >> well -- >> i'm not talking about him because he doesn't write the headlines. >> he's an opinion writer. >> let me give you a vivid example today. all the auto companies came out with their sales. general motor sales are abysmal. i personally think they'll need another bailout. the headline in the l.a. times is general motors' sales is up 2%, it was up 1.5, but they rounded up. in the same sentence they said volkswagen was up 34.4%. they didn't round that one up or down. [laughter] it's just an all out block and tackle, block and tackle. >> are do you think, either of you, do you think that the public is going to stand for another bailout of any sort to anyone? the last time general motor took bailout -- >> did you say -- you spent the last three years telling the american public pailouts work. -- bailouts work. they want to keep those -- >> two things about that. first, let's not forget who started the bailout, it was not the democrats -- >> it was wrong either way.

>> well, and then the second aspect of that is, you know, bailouts if you've got people in ohio and michigan, for example, without the auto bailout they would say lull it -- say absoluy it was the right thing to do. alisyn: but, julie, back to the media's depiction of all this, even what you just said, you said, yes, the recovery isn't happening as fast as we would like. even that is soft pedaling it. do you think the media has been accurate in really showing the red flags that are happening with the economy? >> i think certain responsible members of the media on both the right and the left have been, and i mentioned paul krugman as one of those people because, again, he's somebody that does not agree with charles on the prescription for what needs to be done, but he certainly hasn't soft pedaled what should be done in the his mind. now, it may not be something that people like you agree with. alisyn: well, we will hear a lot about this tomorrow night at the debate, rest assured. simon, julie and charles, thanks

so much for coming in. dramatic documents have come to light today showing concerns about security way before the attack on our consulate in libya that killed, of course, four americans including a u.s. ambassador. former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld will join us live in minutes. what do these documents tell us about libya, our relationship with them and the administration?

alisyn: this is a fox news alert on some new details on the terror attack at our consulate in libya. new documents show that there were warnings about security lapses that were ignored before last month's ambush that killed a u.s. ambassador and three other americans. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge has all of the details from washington. catherine? >> reporter: well, thank you. in this letter to secretary of state clinton, the house oversight committee alleging 12 incidents that deteriorating security situation before that consulate attack.

the reported incidents include a libyan security force so afraid for its own safety that family members urged the guards to quit in the weeks leading up to the murder of four americans. also threats posted on facebook specifically targeting ambassador stevens. the letter reads in part, quote: >> reporter: the short time ago, the state department responding. >> i think it's fair to say that we are still working through what we have in this building in terms of documentation, in terms of information about what we knew, who knew it, when they knew it, and that's part of the process that we have to go through. >> reporter: separately, fox news has obtained letters that shows the state department refused to get involved in a dispute between the security license holder in libya and its operations partner, blue mountain u.k., that trained and

provided the local guards. a source of knowledge, one in june and a second in july, tells fox that the libyan contract holder felt that the security provided by blue mountain u.k. was, quote: sub standard, and the situation was unworkable. when the libyans tried to bring in a third party to improve security at the consulate, a state department contract officer apparently shut it down. quote: >> reporter: we are asking blue mountain u.k. to respond to those charges. alisyn: catherine herridge, thank you for that update and your excellent reporting throughout this entire situation. >> reporter: you're welcome. alisyn: so what do these new documents really tell us? our next guest is the author of "known and unknown: a memoir." donald rumsfeld, former secretary of defense under president george w. bush. sedge tear rumsfeld -- secretary

rumsfeld, thanks for being here. let's talk about what catherine herridge just reported. there are whistleblowers who have said the libyan security forces themselves were scared and wanted to quit in the weeks leading up to the attack is the and that those inside the consulate had requested added security, but those requests somehow were not fulfilled. what do you make of all this? >> well, i heard the same report you heard, and as we know in a u.s. embassy or consulate overseas, theoretically the first responsibility is for the local government of the country to provide security for the consulate or the embassy. the second responsibility, obviously, and the principal responsibility really is with the department of state. and what they do normally is they gather intelligence and determine some level of threat that may or may not exist in a given situation. and then it's the responsibility of the department of state to see that the embassy has

appropriate security forces that would meet that level of threat. alisyn: so what went wrong here, do you think? >> well, it sounds -- it's too early to tell really. i'm delighted that the congress is taking a look at it and that there are people who are whistleblowers who are talking about what they know and what might have happened. and i think we just have to let the investigation run. but from what the report sounded like, it sounded like there were people who were bureaucratic and unwilling to respond promptly to a threat report and to concerns that were being expressed by the people in libya. and if that's the case, if that proves to be the case, obviously, the responsibility for that behavior will fall on them. alisyn: but, secretary rumsfeld, now that we know there were requests for more security and people were expressing their concerns and their fear, does it make it all the more confusing

and questionable why this was first labeled as just a spontaneous reaction to an online video as opposed to a terrorist attack? >> well, it certainly does. i mean, the idea of sending the united nations ambassador for the united states out to market and peddle and spin a story that has within a matter of hours demonstrated to be not accurate, i think, is inexcusable. i can't imagine. but we saw that that's what happened, and i think it's probably because people hoped that the situation there was caused by something other than the reaction of the people to the united states. i mean, we've seen it now in country after country where american flags are burned, and pictures of the president are burned, and the al-qaeda flag, black banner goes up, and there are attacks on our embassies and

various security senses are breached. it is happening. it isn't the arab spring, it's something that is much broader. it's across the islamic world, and it reflects a serious problem. and i think that the president characterizing it -- if i'm correct -- as butches in the road -- as bumps in the road, i think, is inappropriate. i also think the idea that he decided to go off to las vegas to a fundraiser when the news of this broke was surprising. alisyn: secretary, we want to follow up with you, we want to talk with you a little bit longer if you can stick around for just two minutes, we want to talk to you on the other side of this break. >> fine. alisyn: more "america live" in two minutes.

alisyn: we're back now with former defense secretary donald rum fed, the author of "known and unknown: a memoir." and we are talking about security concerns in libya ahead of the terror attack that killed four americans on 9/11. mr. secretary, you mentioned pram ma's trip -- president obama's trip to las vegas on september 12th. chief white house adviser david plouffe defended that decision this weekend, and he said that, basically, president obama is the president 24/7, he can multitask. what do you think of that? if you were secretary of defense today, what would you be advising the president to do about this benghazi situation? >> i think that the benghazi situation is a part of a pattern that we're seeing in the not just the arab world, but the islamic world. and it seems to me that the people in the white house including the president have a responsibility to the country to focus on what is apparently a very serious and broad, deep problem.

it is not something that can be atrialattributed to a video no s seen. everyone knew that that day was september 11th, and that date posed particular dangers for americans. and it seemed to me that a president has a responsibility to focus. now, it's true, a president takes along advisers and communications capabilities. but it seems to me if you have a group of people killed that the president has a responsibility to be on the scene in the white house focusing on it, and anyone in many las vegas at the fundraiser would certainly have understood if a president decided that his attention was required elsewhere. alisyn: and, secretary rumsfeld, now that we know it was a terrorist attack, what should the u.s.' response be to this? >> well, it's going to be a function of what intelligence we have and what kind of

information the fbi is able to glean from the site. but, of course, it's been days since the attack, and there's no question but that the information they're going to gain from going to the site is going to be minimal given the number of days that have passed. but it seems to me that what it really requires is learn si getting -- certainly getting better intelligence, providing better security for our people. but it also requires the president understanding the nature of the problem we face in the world. and we face a serious problem. there are people who don't believe in the nation-state, there are people who are training people to go out and kill innocent men, women and children, and we have to recognize that that is the enemy, be willing to talk about it and face it. alisyn: former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld, thanks so much for joining us with your expertise today. >> thank you. alisyn: more "america live" when we come right back. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement

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